While the rumors of an upcoming 7th Edition were recently denied, they have returned in farce. 7th is going to start appearing in the immediate future.
Pretty firm rumors include...
A psychic phase after movement but before shooting. It sounds similar to fantasy, with pools of dice and deny the witch complications.
Rules for gargantuan, superheavy and purchased fortifications are included. The big models are now intended to be integrated into ordinary 40K battles.
Force organization charts and allies are more involved. If you don't want to follow the force org charts you don't have to, but there is some sort of penalty. The allies chart is more sparse. There are fewer allies of convenience for most armies, though anything Imperial is brothers with the rest of the Imperium. I understand battle brothers will be able to use each other's transports.
There are supposed to be tweaks. There is something new regarding removing models from units with multiple wounds per model.
The damage table for vehicles is apparently changed. Supposedly walkers will become a bit better.
I'm sure there is more. The full package includes a rule book, a fluff book and Something Else.
I'm not in any particular hurry to switch over.
Last Edit: May 21, 2014 12:43:36 GMT -5 by blantyr
I believe Jay said pre-orders start today and Adam confirmed this at that time (if my memory holds up). I think it is supposed to be out next week. In either case I am not really looking to change over quickly, but will probably do it eventually. We will see there is always so much banter prior to a new release so hopefully keeping positive it is for the better.
The buzz is that V7 is definitely leaning towards casual fun play rather than competitive tourney play. For the Starship, I think this is a good thing. We are not a hyper competitive cutthroat bunch.
There are concerns about obvious abuse potential. The primary concern is "demon spam". A player loads up on summoning psychers. Next turn one summons summoning psychers such as the demon heralds. Wash, rinse, repeat. In theory, one can swamp the table with demons. I understand that players have gone beyond theory, tried it on the board, and it really is a problem.
Another significant concern is the new rules for the psi power invisibility. I've seen suggestions that this power should be run under V6 wording. If anyone ends up with this power in play, I'd like to hear how it works.
Nate and I tried it out yesterday. Seemed to play well enough. The very first psychic phase was clumsy, but the second and third went fine. (My problem was remembering that there was a psychic phase.) My biggest partisan disappointment as an Eldar player was a weaker jink save. However, with walkers now getting to fire all their weapons, walking two wraithlord into close range was interesting. I can't remember the last time I had fired wraithlord flamers and s-cats. Immortals? Ha!
Overall, I'll give it a thumbs up. We wound up looking up a lot of stuff as we had little idea of what had changed. Other than that, it played like 40K.
My preference would be to do V7 from here on in. It's not that it is that much better or worse, but I don't want to confuse myself jumping back and forth.
I must say, with the Demon spam concern, it seems so improbable, most armies don't seem to get psykers of level 3 or greater, the Eldar and Chaos have 3s and 4s, so you need to generate the extra warp charges in the psychic phase, not impossible, but when say, the Imperial Guardsmen's Primus Psykers are only level 2, and that's an extra 25 points to get them to that point anyways, same with a Space Marine Librarian, we can only go to level 2. Also mixed in with the fact that there are quite a few armies without Psykers, Tau, Sisters of Battle, Dark Eldar I believe, Necrons, Orks, Space Wolves can't even get them because their Rune Priests aren't Psykers, and even then, if you take your Eldar and do nothing but Warlocks, you still need to roll that power, and generate the Warp charges for the ability to do it, I think some people aren't looking at the probability, but looking at worst case scenario.
Chaos Daemons specifically are an issue. I am pretty sure that the Pink Horrors have the Brotherhood of Psykers rule, so they count as mastery level 1. They then have level 3 HQs, heralds that can be upgraded to level 3(and don't take up HQ slots in a primary CD detachment), and 3 potential level 3 Daemon Princes in Heavy Support with corresponding Greater Daemons.
The fact that they can ally with CSM as Battle Brothers and pick up Ahriman (level 4) is just icing on the cake.
However, knowing that it is an issue and potentially overpowered I am holding off on messing around with daemonology. I do, however, have a Be'lakor model waiting to be painted so I may have to mess around with a Daemon heavy list soon just so some models finally see the table!
The worst case demon spam concerns involve ignoring force organization charts. If you aren't limited to two HQ slots, things get uglier.
At one point I was doing chaos, using various dragon models to represent demon princesses, and I liked painting dragons and succubi. I could make an attempt at demon spam, but at the moment I'm content with Eldar. I've no real desire to push things.
Unbound things are one thing, but I can get 10 mastery levels with one unit each of those listed in my last post. I figured out an 1850 point list that would give you 24 mastery levels. Taking a Greater Daemon unlocks Daemon Princes as Heavy Support that can be upgraded to level 3.
1 x Lord of Change (3) 3 x heralds of Tzeentch (3x3) 3 x 10 Pink Horrors (3 x1) 6 x Screamers 3 x Tzeentch Daemon Princes (3x3)
And those examples are legal according to 6 ed force org (no allies or double force org involved).
There are a bunch of ways to organize an army in V7. I started to get cross eyed a little bit in. The Bound army would be traditional as in V6. You get the old force organization chart, requiring 1 HQ and 2 troops, then up to 2, 6, 3, 3, 3. One gets the option of an allied detachment, 1HQ, 1 troop, and a few others. If one follows tradition, you get to re-roll warlord traits and everything is scoring.
As soon as I confirmed I could play traditionally, I stopped reading.
But unbound armies or detachments tend to ignore force organization. Do you want five elite units? A superheavy? A loota squad or three? An all flyer air force army? A bunch of demon summoning stuff with 24 levels of mastery? What can your twisted heart desire? Anything goes. Beware the allies chart. If you get too creative, your various units will be too busy staring down their friends to fight their enemies. You are apt to have non-scoring units. Some attempt has been made to give assorted drawbacks to ignoring tradition.
I once had a Chaos force with lots of lasgun cultists and demon cavalry. Under recent codices, I had to play them separately as Chaos Marines, Chaos Demons and Imperial Guard. I could now reunite the old army in theory, but the Chaos factions aren't exactly close friends with the Guard.
Read the codex for details, but you can always play traditionally.
I would note, that in spite of what GW might claim, all of the above requires the consent of your opponent. If your opponent gets disgusted enough, he can always walk out of the store. We are a pretty informal play-for-fun group. I'd suggest that we warn our opponents before getting too weird. On the other hand, if a weird army has any redeeming social value, why not?
But the competitive players who like tournament play are nervous. They suspect the freedom to organize strange combinations of forces is apt to be abusable. If someone comes to the Starship with a weird mix of models that can wipe the floor against many traditional armies, I'll worry about it. Until then, let's see what people come up with.
There a couple potential issues I find with unbound armies. The first is the freedom to take allies without the obligatory HQ / Troop choices. Particularly in a small game, the option to include an allies strongest units without a HQ/Troop tax isn't especially balanced. The second applies to certain codexes which are very heavy in some areas - like CSM in Heavy Support. I could now take my 2 maulerfiends, my tri-lascannon predator, and 6 obliterators. Even worse, my 6 obliterators can each be their own unit and have no concern with failing leadership checks or the units being forced to use the same weapin each shooting phase.
There definitely aspects of the unbound format that seem desirable and not necessarily broken. It would be nice to break up grouped units into more individual ones for convenience, such as obliterators or Canoptek spyders (with the gloom prisms and their +2 DTW buffs)).
So..this now means I can back up my Space Marines, with a Lemun Russ or seven? God help you all.
Yah. Imperial forces are all 'battle brothers'. They don't have to worry about penalties that some other combinations draw. I don't know whether the Russ would be scoring or not, though. Lots of details to hide devils among.
On an actual note, I vote we play traditionally unless agreed upon by both parties to prevent these sorts of shenanigans
I'll second this. I'll be more sympathetic with a player who wants to field a given force for fluff or theme reasons than one who thinks he sees a small crack in the rules, and wants to drive a super heavy through it. If someone wants to do something a bit strange, I might ask to do something else a bit strange.
I agree. However - I feel like the trade-off between minor use of the unbound structure and a lack of "Objective Secured" (not to mention the warlord trait reroll) can be pretty reasonable with moderate tweaking of the traditional force org chart. If I was so inclined, I would consider taking:
HQ Destroyer Lord
TROOPS Warriors (w/ Ghost Ark) Immortals (w/ Night Scythe)
FAST ATTACK Wraiths Scarabs Scarabs
HEAVY SUPPORT Annihilation Barge Annihilation Barge Spyders Spyders
That is the same list that I used last week, and did very well with. However, I feel like having the option to split a few units up in exchange for losing the Objective Secured trait on troops affords some appealing flexibility. As a Necron player this is particularly appealing especially due to the the introduction of the Psychic phase and its dispel mechanic. Necrons have no Psykers, and the only Psychic defense that I know of is the Canoptek Spyders Gloom Prism upgrade. This gives units within 3" a +2 to their Deny the Witch rolls.
If I were to play someone who had the potential to bring a lot of psykers I would consider the tradeoff acceptable.
7th ed. scoring units: - No Swooping MC - No Zooming Flyer (or unit embarked upon one) - Units that are falling back - All other units are scoring unless they have a rule which specifically states that it never counts as scoring
There isn't anything in the vehicle, Heavy, or Tank section that specifically prohibits scoring.